Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva on Ram ProMaster

Here's a forum for the B+ Motorhomes. B+ isn't an official RV category but it describes these small Class C's well. B Plus RV's don't have the sleeping space over the cab that a Class C typically has.

Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva on Ram ProMaster

Postby markopolo » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:42 pm

Anyone here think that we might start to see a lot more "B plus" (small Class C) type RV's because of the reported increased fuel efficiency of the new Transit and ProMaster chassis? It seems logical to me.
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Postby Mike » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:25 pm

If the demand for more space inside conversion vans becomes a more commonly requested feature, and it can be achieved on a chassis/engine/transmission combo with better fuel economy, there may be more View/Navion/? sized vans built to satisfy that niche of the market. I still see a lot of that sized RV when we're out and about. Also, the BT Cruiser/Aspect/Born Free seem to be fairly common, too. I admit, since we're also "looking" for something a bit bigger, I tend to notice the B+ small C models more.
Not sure what aspect of them turns people back to a smaller, more typical class B?
Does anyone have any anecdotal info on what brings people who went to a larger B+ or small C Sprinter based RV, back to the class B fold?
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Postby Davydd » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:04 pm

In our small BEE Social Group we had two couples just this year, Sprinter Winnebago Via and Itasca Navion iQ owners return to Class B buying the Winnebago ERA. The biggest reason was driveability from what I heard. The width seemed to be the biggest hangup since the lengths of 25 feet was not much greater than the ERA's 24 feet. Driving on small rural roads, the narrow kind without center line markings seemed to be the biggest hangup. When you go from a true B to a C you lose a lot of driving freedom, maneuverability, parking opportunities...probably more so than you realize since you tend to rationalize and alter habits. Those two couples were at one time previous B owners so understood. The extra foot or more of height or anything greater than 10 feet is another intimidating factor. The height can keep you off places like the Needles Highway in the Black Hills and the Going to the Sun Road in Glacier NP.

I'm guessing bottom line is the Sprinter Cs don't give you a lot more to put up with them. The bathrooms are more generous and can have dry baths, but the water and waste tank capacities don't give you much more to use them fulltime or adequately unless you stay at full hookup sites. Kitchens are not much bigger now that many B converters have finally gone to 7 CF capacity refrigeratior/freezers. Beds in many Cs can actually be substandard compared to Bs, especially those 54" kind crawl in wedged in corners with the the corner nipped off. Sometimes all you get in a C of that class is a little bit more standing around breathing room which might make a difference in extended stays in one place.

Being bigger and heavier they will never have the same fuel economy as the Bs. Besides the width factor, they will never drive down the road as smoothly as the unibody vans thus touring can become a chore not a joy. At some point a C gets so big you start to feel compelled to pull a toad. At some point you start limiting where you can camp or limit your choices as we noticed camping in a state forest last week and the struggles the bigger RVs had.

It's all in style. We talked to some RVers up at Voyageurs NP last week interested in our Sprinter. After listening to them I kind of figured they might not like a B since their style was extended stays and they liked to arrange campground camping host gigs around the country. The husband seemed hot for a B Sprinter probably for many of the reasons I mentioned but the wife liked bigger. They had yo yoed from a small Scamp/Casita like trailer to a full blown 5th wheeler and back down to a 24 foot trailer in trying to find their ideal. Through all that, they still did no like backing in and parking trailers. I suspect if they did go to a Sprinter they would probably go to a Navion/View kind.
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Postby Mike » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:25 pm

I was guessing the width and height was probably part of it, as well as the hit and miss bed setup in most of them. The only perma-bed was the over cab cubby, and that was a pita to get to in the Navion we test drove back in Feb-March. The extra space and full dry bath area, and extra storage were nice. There was a lot more elbow room space for dining and just lazing around in it, or watching TV. We both thought the cab area was a bit Spartan in it's fit and finish and comfort. Probably would have gotten used to it after time.
The Onan 3.6 or 4.0 KW generator wasn't any quieter than my 2.8KW, so that was a trade off. I expected a propane model might be quieter. It was on the 2007 Sprinter 2500 I believe, with the 5 cylinder diesel, so I expected pretty decent fuel economy from it. It was over priced IMO, and it took 3 months before it sold. Probably pricey because it was just before "the season".
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Postby mlts22 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:45 pm

There is also build quality. The Sprinter Cs i've looked at have more room and a slide or two... but materials, fit, and finish are a definite tier lower than any modern "B".

I have considered a Forest River Solera, and it is a decent MH, but the width was an issue, so no being able to park near towns, or in crowded strip malls for groceries, etc.

Then, there is the service aspect. "B"s can be serviced at van places. A "C" is dicey.

Finally, there is the water damage aspect. With a "B", this is far less of a persistent worry than virtually any other class of RV out there.
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news... Winnebago Trend 23L & 23B

Postby markopolo » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:47 pm

Looks like Winnebago has the first Ram ProMaster based Class C in addition to the first Class B.

Blaze New Trails!

Get ready for a full-featured motorhome experience at an unbelievable price. Built on the new Ram ProMaster chassis, the new Winnebago Trend™ delivers peppy, fuel-efficiency and comfortable living space for up to four people. Both 23’ floorplans offer a powered StudioLoft™ bed that lifts tight to the ceiling to conserve space during the day. Other features include energy-saving LED lighting and soft, easy-to-clean Ultraleather™ furniture. We have even added three-point seat belts to the dinette—an industry first. Start something special when you are one of the first on the road in an all-new Winnebago Trend.


Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva
Winnebago Trend.jpg
Itasca Viva! Winnebago Trend
Winnebago Trend.jpg (19.98 KiB) Viewed 2935 times


Ram ProMaster Chassis 280-hp. 3.6L V6 gas engine, 6-speed automatic 62TE transmission, 220-amp. alternator

two models: the Trend 23L and Trend 23B

Here's a list of features I think are noteable:
StudioLoft™ w/electric lift
Cab seats armrests, lumbar support and multi-adjustable swivel/slide/recline (Swivel seats in a Class C :thumbup: )
Retractable, self-cleaning shower screen
2,800-watt Cummins Onan gas generator
Group 31 AGM battery
Optional Equipment: Heated drainage system
Automatic dual battery charge control
Auxilliary start circuit

Found a photo on Flagg RV's Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/FlaggRV
Winnebago Trend Itasca Viva.jpg
Itasca Viva! Winnebago Trend
Winnebago Trend Itasca Viva.jpg (47.55 KiB) Viewed 2928 times
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Postby mlts22 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:03 pm

Nice find. I have not found a single shred of info other what you found on that "C" model anywhere, except a "Coming Soon" on Camping World's site, and an empty slot with the name on WGO's site. Definitely something up and coming though, and a definite replacement for the short C models.

I wonder if that will appeal to the 20-somethings and 30-somethings, whom normally dislike RV-ing due to fearing the cost of gas and storage. The 24' 1" of that rig is ERA-sized, and it isn't obnoxiously wide like some class Cs.
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news.. Itasca Viva! Winnebago Trend

Postby markopolo » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:45 pm

I think the Itasca Viva! / Winnebago Trend was announced at the same time as the Travato.

Another photo of the Winnebago Trend, this one from Hill's RVs https://www.facebook.com/Hillsrvs

Winnebago Trend Itasca Viva 2.jpg
Itasca Viva! / Winnebago Trend
Winnebago Trend Itasca Viva 2.jpg (52.13 KiB) Viewed 2985 times


I'm trying to confirm the height to see if could fit under a 10' garage door opening like Sprinter based Class B's. One site had 10'4" as the height of the Winnebago Trend. It does not look tall in the photo.
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Postby mlts22 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:25 pm

What is interesting is the drop-down beds. European "semi coach-builts" often use those in floorplans so one can have an ample area for sitting/living space, then just push a switch to drop down the bed for the night. With that in mind, I would hazard a guess that one of the floorplans will have a rear kitchen or a rear bathroom. None of the pictures have shown slide-outs.

They appear fairly narrow, widening from the cab about a foot, so I wonder how possible it will be to run toad-less with one.
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news.. Itasca Viva! Winnebago Trend

Postby markopolo » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:10 am

and another Winnebago Trend photo, this time from Moffitt's RV https://www.facebook.com/Moffittsrv

Winnebago Trend Moffitts RV Facebook page.jpg
Itasca Viva! Winnebago Trend
Winnebago Trend Moffitts RV Facebook page.jpg (64.93 KiB) Viewed 3079 times


Kerrville RV http://www.kerrvillerv.com/inv2.php?type=rv&unit_id=410 has some info on their website
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
2014 WINNEBAGO TREND 23L RAM PROMASTER CHASSIS DODGE 280HP 3.6L V-6
VAPOR FABRIC/NTRL/MARBELLA CHERRY HEATED DRAINAGE SYSTEM CAB AREA APPLIQUE PKG
FRONT LCD FLATSCREEN TV EXTERIOR GRAPHICS PKG 2.8KW ONAN GENERATOR
LED LIGHTING STUDIO LOFT BED & REAR CORNER BED A/C WITH HEAT STRIPS
PWR AWNING 2 BENCH SEATS W/DINING TABLE 2 BURNER STOVE
MICRO/CONVECTION DBL STAINLESS SINK 2 DR FRIDGE/FREEZER
DRIVER/PASSENGER SWIVEL SEATS CLICK ON "MSRP" TAB TO VIEW MORE DETAILS NEW TO THE WINNEBAGO FAMILY!
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Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Postby markopolo » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:35 am

The Itasca Viva! / Winnebago Trend is clearly a Class C but I think it will compete more against Class B vans than larger Class C units.

We went from:
- Class B (Roadtrek) to a short 21' Class C (Trail Lite B+) because we want a full bathroom. The full kitchen was a bonus.
- 21' Class C (Trail Lite B+) to 30' Class C for a full proper queen sized bed, full bathroom & full kitchen.
- 30' Class C to 20' 17MPG Custom Class B because of the 8 MPG the 30' C was getting :shock: and the inability to use it as a second vehicle for errands.

We'd like something a bit bigger but........ it must fit in my garage :angel:
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