Class B Market Share, Sales and Shipments

[gregmchugh]

Jim Hammill is making sales himself until the end of the Month so he might get a few extra sales in May...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/road...1280249030958/

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Jim Hammill is making sales himself until the end of the Month so he might get a few extra sales in May...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/road...1280249030958/

My goodness, much ego there? Hammil giving lessons in human relations is like a politician giving lessons in ethics.

It sounds like they must have a lot of units on dealer lots, probably on a Roadtrek support plan, that are getting old and costing too much to carry. The "I will find the unit you want" would certainly mean they have to be existing units to be in the sale.

[gregmchugh]

I think he is also taking orders for vans but I am sure he will be trying to sell existing vans when he can...

[booster]

If he is also taking new orders, I wonder how that works with the dealers, as it will come right off their potential sales and income. The dealers are also going to have to deliver and service the units. Much different than shuffling slow moving units around the country to get to a customers that wants them. I would hope there is some kind of spiff in it all for the dealers

Predictably, all the Facebook fanfolks are raving about how great Hammil is for doing this. It will be interesting to see how good the deals really are. Older stock (as we got in 200 has historically gone out the door at 25-30% off MSRP, from what we have experienced and heard.

I wonder how his sales force, reps, and dealers like being told:

I was thinking that my people need a lesson in sales. In human relations.

Are you kinda ticked off at sales techniques and stalled in your process? Let me help you.

help me show my salespeople how easy it is to be honest, and nice, and knowledgeable and succeed.

And doing it in public, on Facebook, and with a straight path to a huge part of the high probability buyers. He has basically killed dealer sales to anyone who has heard of this deal.

I certainly am not saying that what he says about the RV buying process (in general, not just Roadtrek) is not true. But it is very odd to air the corporate laundry and insult your employees and dealers in public in the process. Add the fact that Hammil himself has certainly not exactly been the poster boy for good customer care and human relations and it makes it even odder.

This should be very interesting to watch and see how it all shakes out

[gregmchugh]

They should be use to blunt talk from him by now. I think all these new sale orders will be delivered through an existing dealer who gets their take in the process. I think Jim is the one taking the financial hit, similar to special discounts from the factory at other times...

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

They should be use to blunt talk from him by now. I think all these new sale orders will be delivered through an existing dealer who gets their take in the process. I think Jim is the one taking the financial hit, similar to special discounts from the factory at other times...

I would assume the new orders would be delivered through the dealers, as that is what they are going to do with the older units, at least as it was stated (basically shuffling units between dealers, which will also be an interesting exercise in how to compensate the two dealers when they had no input on the sale). Dealer profit on new orders would normally be the dealers call and would be however much they can sell it for above cost. With Hammil setting the price, maybe they will just give the dealer a fixed amount to cover the transaction?

[96coachmen]

That has all the characteristics of an auto manufacturers' rebate. I am most familiar with Dodge, because they can be quite generous when they need to make deals. They last gave me $9k off a $40k sticker price several years ago. Dealer still made his money, Chrysler Corp. helped make the discount I'm sure to get it off the lot. Same dealer is giving $8k to $10k off on Town and Country vans right now, since the Pacifica has been released. Anyway, I'm sure the Roadtrek dealers are making their cut, and Roadtrek is moving some units.

Too bad for me, I want a Zion real bad, but need a few more years to make sense. But I will work them hard when the timing is right. Does anyone know if that link still works? It did last night for me, I joined the group, and now can't find the post by Hammill, and the link fails for me. I need to read that for research for the future. I never had the pleasure of reading Hammill's posts before. I will say this, if he could arrange balloon payment manufacturers financing (sort of like a house), I would be very tempted, but I guess with depreciation, they could not do that. I'm just a couple years off from paying off kids' college and from retirement, but working a specific deal with a manufacturer who wants to sell is definitely my sweet spot when I am looking to purchase.

[gregmchugh]

The link still works for me and I am not a member of that group...

[markopolo]

April 2016 Class B Sales stats have been posted on RV Business: SSI: April Class B Sales Soar 23%; Up 8% YTD | RV Business

Sales were up 22.9% compared to last April! That's really interesting because both C's & A's were down - SSI: Motorhome Sales Retreat 5.6% During April | RV Business - Class C sales had been doing well previously.

Year-over-year Class B motorhome retail registrations jumped 22.9% in April while gaining 8.1% year-to-date, according to the latest report from Statistical Surveys Inc. (SSI).

Here's the Class B market share breakdown:

February 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 33.2% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 29.9% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 23% market share.
Pleasure-Way 11.9%

March 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 34.3% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 31.5% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 20.3% market share.
Pleasure-Way 10.1%

April 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 36.3% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 29.4% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 18.6% market share.
Pleasure-Way 11.2%

Winnebago has held the top spot for more than a year now according to those published reports. The almost 7% lead is quite an accomplishment. The 23% down to 20.3% down to 18.6% for Thor surprises me. Those Airstream units are in the top end of prices whenever I look on RV trader. To me, the top end seems crowded with lots of units asking for more than $100,000. Meanwhile, Winnebago, with more affordable Class B's, has come in first for the last 13 months according to the reports.

Now that Hymer owns Roadtrek it will be interesting to see what efforts they make if they desire to get the brand back to number 1.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by markopolo

April 2016 Class B Sales stats have been posted on RV Business: SSI: April Class B Sales Soar 23%; Up 8% YTD | RV Business

Sales were up 22.9% compared to last April! That's really interesting because both C's & A's were down - SSI: Motorhome Sales Retreat 5.6% During April | RV Business - Class C sales had been doing well previously.



Here's the Class B market share breakdown:

February 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 33.2% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 29.9% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 23% market share.
Pleasure-Way 11.9%

March 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 34.3% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 31.5% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 20.3% market share.
Pleasure-Way 10.1%

April 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 36.3% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 29.4% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 18.6% market share.
Pleasure-Way 11.2%

Winnebago has held the top spot for more than a year now according to those published reports. The almost 7% lead is quite an accomplishment. The 23% down to 20.3% down to 18.6% for Thor surprises me. Those Airstream units are in the top end of prices whenever I look on RV trader. To me, the top end seems crowded with lots of units asking for more than $100,000. Meanwhile, Winnebago, with more affordable Class B's, has come in first for the last 13 months according to the reports.

Now that Hymer owns Roadtrek it will be interesting to see what efforts they make if they desire to get the brand back to number 1.

i was in retail.I was a pharmacist. for a period in the 80's i was pharmacy director for a major drug chain in NJ -i had 85 stores. Sales are important but profitless sales were a disaster. without knowing the economics of the rv business-tough to say. winnegego is far larger than roadtrek/hymer in North America-yes i know hymer big oversea.

althougth i'm sure winnebego requires all divisions to make profits it's possible the overhead costs are more spread out and profitablity at lower costs is still doable. Roadtrek could never match winnebego on price

[avanti]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Roadtrek could never match winnebego on price

Although I agree with your point, I am not completely sure of the above statement. B-vans, including Winnebago are still built using pretty primitive construction techniques. I believe that there is still a LOT of efficiency that could be engineered into this process via more aggressive use of NC machining, more integrated designs, and standardization of systems, among other things. These things aren't done because of the large NRE they require. Hymer has the resources to make such an investment. If they also have the will, things could change pretty dramatically. I am not predicting this, but it is not impossible.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Although I agree with your point, I am not completely sure of the above statement. B-vans, including Winnebago are still built using pretty primitive construction techniques. I believe that there is still a LOT of efficiency that could be engineered into this process via more aggressive use of NC machining, more integrated designs, and standardization of systems, among other things. These things aren't done because of the large NRE they require. Homer has the resources to make such an investment. If the also have the will, things could change pretty dramatically. I am not predicting this, but it is not impossible.

I totally agree about the price matching. Not that they could deliver an etrek for the price of a Travato, but on comparable stuff. I worked a lot with design for manufacturing, some from the design side, mostly from the manufacturing side. We never had anything as complex as an RV, but on the stuff we did have we could usually get near a 1/3 cost reduction and on one product that I redesigned we got a 2/3 cost reduction. Normally we also got significant quality and reliability improvements as a bonus. It certainly can be done.

30 years ago, they said that John Deere could never compete in the residential lawn care products category because of their high production costs, and now they are huge player all the way down to the low/mid market. They made smart investments and good designs.

[markopolo]

May 2016 Class B Shipment stats have been published on RVIA's site: The Recreation Vehicle Industry Association: RVIA Main Site Home

Shipments are up 3% compared to last May.

May 2016 Class B Shipments.JPG

Shipments are up 12.1% YTD

[markopolo]

May 2016 Class B Sales stats have been posted on RV Business: SSI: May Class B Retail Sales Flat, Increase 1.1% | RV Business

Sales were up only 1.1% compared to last May.

Year-over-year Class B motorhome retail registrations were flat in May, up 1.1%, while gaining 9% year-to-date, according to the latest report from Statistical Surveys Inc. (SSI).

Here's the Class B market share breakdown:

March 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 34.3% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 31.5% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 20.3% market share.
Pleasure-Way 10.1%

April 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 36.3% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 29.4% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 18.6% market share.
Pleasure-Way 11.2%

May 2016
Winnebago Industries Inc. 37.1% market share.
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 29.1% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 18.5% market share.
Pleasure-Way 10.6%

That might be a new high point for Winnebago. The 8% market share lead is impressive.

[booster]

It is sure does seem be showing the market trending toward the value based customers, and leaving less for the high end suppliers to fight over.

[gregmchugh]

Jim Hammill never gave any feedback on how many vans he personally sold during his end of May salathon, it will be interesting over the next few months as they are delivered and registered to see if there is any noticeable increase in Roadtrek sales...

[markopolo]

I had to go back and look at May 2015 - http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f9...html#post30287 - because the numbers didn't seem to make sense to me.

May 2016 was likely much better than what the "May Class B Sales Flat" headline could lead one to think.

[Davydd]

In that year there has been another 3-4 million Baby Boomer retirees. The 1.1% increase does not speak well for the RV industry or Class Bs. "Value based customers" to me speaks to the unprepared retirees and the health of the economy. To me the RV industry is the canary in the cage that might be reflecting on something the general economic numbers aren't reflecting yet.

Roadtrek's percentage continues to fall. I don't know if that is because of value based customers or the fact they continue to hold on and market Chevys that everyone else dropped and the value line has migrated to Euro vans (Promaster) which Winnebago has had a decidedly market edge in promotion, awareness, design and price, IMO.

[BBQ]

.

I am surprised the B market is only ~10% of the C market.

[gregmchugh]

Yes, a very small piece of the RV market, analyzed to death with very few units actually sold each month, maybe 130 by Winnebago and 100 by Roadtrek these days. Only data available though so might as well analyze the sh*t out of it...