Utilizing your ScanGauge

[booster]

Originally Posted by booster

I like the idea of a Scangauge thread. The more I have messed with it, the more I figure I don't totally understand some of the way it works, or why they did things the way they did. We may not even be using it right, so it is always good to have others try things and compare.

Marko-would you prefer me to start a new topic or could you move the Scangauge stuff out of here, which might be the easiest (at least for me!)?

Marko edit I copied some posts and made a new topic.

[dicktill]

Sorry but I'm having a lot of trouble warming up to the logic/math/physics that doing hills (at least any sort of significant hills vs. just minor rolling hills) can benefit fuel mileage, especially if as Markopolo says you have to brake a bit (or a lot) on the downhills, which I also have to do (a lot). Bear in mind that it is very difficult especially on the Chevy Roadtreks to fill the tank all the way and to do it with any consistency, and hence "mileage on the last tankful" results can be deceiving. And then there are the variables of wind, and starting vs. finishing elevations; eek! We've had gas mileages all over the place, but very consistently it suffers badly in hilly terrain. But as the big folks say YMMV!

Disclaimer: My 09/10C190P Roadtrek has a mousey 4.8l motor, and just a 4 speed tranny.

Regards, Dick

[booster]

I first noticed what I thought was the better mileage in hills about 4 years ago, and just assumed it was calculation error or setting error on the Scangauge. We go 21 mpg on a very hilly stretch of northern Minnesota (big tailwind, too). As soon as we hit the level the mileage dropped to under 20 (average) in a short time. It always stuck with me as odd, so I would watch the Scangauge as we drove different areas, and it did seem to repeat, although we didn't do anything specific to prove or disprove it as I didn't know how to use the "current trip" properly until recently. I surely agree that it does not pass the logical test, especially for those of us that grew up tuning carburetors. I never mentioned it much because I knew it would not make sense to folks, because it didn't make sense to me, either. I just kept watching.

Now I am even more curious, so I did a quick Google of it to see if there was any information out there. The hypermilers seem to be all over it, calling it automatic drive and coast, and many say they get better mileage in hills. It gets hazy when there are a mix of folks with hybrids, diesels, and normal cars, though.

Here are a couple of sites that talk about it:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...mpg-24493.html

http://physics.stackexchange.com/que...ing-over-hills

As always, this is internet information, so take it for whatever you think it is worth!!

Marko--I think you will like the whole range trip data available in the Scangauge. We use ours quite differently than they describe to in the instructions, but it works better for us as it eliminates trying to make sure the tank is topped off all the time, and eliminates a lot of calculating. Here is how we use some of the trip data collections.

If you go to the trip section you can get "tank" "today" "yesterday" " current"

The tank trip is intended to be reset when you fill up, and you also put in how much gas you got so the unit will calibrate to the vehicle. We found that using it this way never worked because of the inconsistency of the Chevy fillups. We got it set to what we thought was the right calibration, and then checked it for accuracy over entire 2-3000 mile trips, so there was only one fillup inconsistency possible. It is now tweaked in very closely, and we never change the correction.

We use the "tank" setting to keep track of our entire trip, or big segments of it. Nothing says you have to reset it when you fill, or partially fill, the tank, and we don't. We just keep adding gas, and it keeps on compiling the average mileage, some mins and maxes, and the number of gallons used. We fill at the end of the trip and compare the gallons used (we keep a total of what we bought) against the Scangauge gallons as a doublecheck. It gives a very, very easy way of knowing your entire trip, or segment, mileage. It also allows us to do a partial fill without losing any information. Our last "tank" was for 2600 miles.

"today" is pretty obvious. It is the mileage data for the day.

"yesterday", never guess that it is yesterdays data.

"current" is the one we use a lot. It is the mileage since the last engine start, or the last "reset" of the current trip. You can reset it by pushing a button at any time, while driving, to start a mileage average for however long you want, and then reset again if you want. With smaller amounts of mileage in the average, the average reacts to changes in instantaneous mileage more quickly, so you can tell what terrain, speed, or driving style are doing to the mileage. I used to try to use the instantaneous mileage for this, but it changes too quickly to be able tell anything useful. If you have only about 50 miles on the "current" trip, and you get in rolling hills, you can watch the average go up and down .1 mpg or more on every uphill and downhill. Then you can see if the overall is increasing or decreasing as it oscillates, which tells you if the hills are helping or hurting, based on how you are driving.

A confusing thing is that the "tank" and the "current" trips are reset in totally different areas of the Scangauge, so you don't really relate them to each other unless you think about it and find them.

[dicktill]

Facinating stuff about the Scanguage Booster; I'd like to know more. Can I suggest that we take this to a new thread (maybe Markopolo can just make it happen by copying the pertinent posts to a new thread), as the current subject line is way off (actually, the other way around).

Back to Booster's last post: How do you adjust for generator fuel useage?

Thanks, Dick

[markopolo]

This is the new topic for using a ScanGauge. It is a bit choppy and I left some posts from the other topic in to give it some flow. I can change the topic name if anyone thinks of a better title. Just let me know.

[dicktill]

Markopolo: Thx for setting this up. Now I'm waiting to learn!

[booster]

Originally Posted by dicktill

Markopolo: Thx for setting this up. Now I'm waiting to learn!

I agree.

My question would be what folks are using the Scangauge for? I know many, me included, bought them primarily because it allowed reading the transmission temperature without adding a sensor to the pan and a gauge. Since, I have used it as a trip computer, and also to look at some of the sensors and other devices like the tps, injector %, timing, etc (mostly out of curiosity of how the engine is programmed).

[markopolo]

I'm a really basic user. Mine is older. Version 5 Firmware 3.15
I never even got as far as showing the transmission temperature.

I display: MPG RPM VLT & GPH

I can't even figure out where the AVG gauge is. Maybe I don't even have one.
I'd like to show the transmission temperature and see AVG MPG.

I just scrolled though it all and something showed my average speed was 150 MPH! I swear that is not true. I going to reset it by choosing USE DEFAULTS. My guess is that I will have to create two XGAUGEs so that I can display AVG mpg and transmission temperature.

Even though I'm a basic user I think it was money well spent. I've used it on 6 vehicles over the last 5 years and like that I have been able to check for trouble codes. I like to see RPMs so it has been useful for that as well.

Has anyone done the $25 mail in firmware upgrade? Does it do much more with the upgrade?

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I'm a really basic user. Mine is older. Version 5 Firmware 3.15
I never even got as far as showing the transmission temperature.

I display: MPG RPM VLT & GPH

I can't even figure out where the AVG gauge is. Maybe I don't even have one.
I'd like to show the transmission temperature and see AVG MPG.

I just scrolled though it all and something showed my average speed was 150 MPH! I swear that is not true. I going to reset it by choosing USE DEFAULTS. My guess is that I will have to create two XGAUGEs so that I can display AVG mpg and transmission temperature.

Even though I'm a basic user I think it was money well spent. I've used it on 6 vehicles over the last 5 years and like that I have been able to check for trouble codes. I like to see RPMs so it has been useful for that as well.

Has anyone done the $25 mail in firmware upgrade? Does it do much more with the upgrade?

I didn't even know there is a firmware upgrade I think ours is a little newer, about 4 years old. One of the oddities of the Scangauge is that you can't display the average mileage on the gauges screen. They show up in the "trip" menu. Do the bottom menu button, then trip. Side arrows go through the current, today, etc different trips. Upper side arrows scroll through mileage, average speed, gallons, etc. You shouldn't need an X gauge for any of this stuff, but you will for the transmission temp.

[markopolo]

Looks like I should be able to display a trip value as an XGauge. Page 28 in both the printed manual I have and the PDF version.

Displaying a Trip Value as an XGAUGE
You can take any of the trip values and have them displayed as a gauge.
This allows you to monitor trip functions along with other gauge
functions.

It goes on with full instructions. There are 9 trip functions to choose from that can pull from 4 trips.
For example, according to the manual I can get "Average Fuel Economy" from the "TANK Trip" and display it as a gauge.

Our ScanGauges might be different.

I got all the codes for Trans Fluid Temperature printed out LARGE and will try it tomorrow.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Looks like I should be able to display a trip value as an XGauge. Page 28 in both the printed manual I have and the PDF version.

It goes on with full instructions. There are 9 trip functions to choose from that can pull from 4 trips.
For example, according to the manual I can get "Average Fuel Economy" from the "TANK Trip" and display it as a gauge.

Our ScanGauges might be different.

I got all the codes for Trans Fluid Temperature printed out LARGE and will try it tomorrow.

That is very interesting, as I just looked at the X gauge list for Chevy on their website and didn't see that one listed. I will have to go get my instruction book and see what it says. That would be very useful for me, as it is always nice to have the rpm and trans temp showing, but I can't do that with the trip screen up showing the average mileage.

Edit-just looked on my instructions. Just like you say and not very many numbers to enter compared to the other X gauges like the trans temp. Thanks Marko!

[markopolo]

Thanks for bringing this topic (Scangauge) up again. I just added 4 more gauges to my ScanGauge to pick from and named them as follows:

TFT - transmission fluid temperature
AVT - average fuel economy (TANK trip)
AVC - average fuel economy (CURRENT trip)
AVD - average fuel economy (TODAY trip)

I'm currently displaying:
RPM
TFT
AVC
AVT

I'm not 100% sure the TFT code is working as it showed single digit with decimal numbers after starting the engine today. They started at 6.something and declined to 3.something. It was just a quick startup / shutdown in the garage. I'll take a drive later today to fill the tank.

[markopolo]

Re: Trans Fluid Temperature - it looks like it works on my 1997 van
I had made a mistake entering the RXF code. MS Excel dropped the leading 0 when I did the copy and paste and printed it.

Up to 25 user programmable gauges can be entered into your ScanGauge. Those are in addition to the 22 preset gauges.

It is easy to do. You just press MORE>MORE>MORE>XGAUGE and pick an unused memory space. Those spaces are numbered 0 to 24. If no 3 letter name is displayed with a memory space number then that space is available to use. Then you select EDIT. You have to enter the TXD, RXF, RXD, MTH and NAME codes and then save it. Refer to the manual for how you scroll to get letters and numbers and move forward.

My GM Savana uses the VPW protocol XGauge codes shown here: http://www.scangauge.com/support/x-gauge/gm-specific/
The codes below are the same codes Booster used in his 2007 Chevy Express to get a Transmission Fluid Temperature gauge.

TXD________________RXF____________RXD_______MTH___ __________NAME___________Notes
6C10F122194001_____046205190640___ 3008______00090005FFD8_____TFT____________Degrees Fahrenheit

What Trans Fluid Temperature range should I expect to see?
What Trans Fluid Temperature would cause concern?

[booster]

I just put one of the trip averages in as an X gauge, also. Very easy. I just did current trip average. I display rmp, instantaneous mileage, trans temp, and now current trip average mileage. I found it easier to go the trip screen to see the others, if I didn't have them already displayed, as there are many x gauges to go through to find them.

The old rule of thumb on trans temperature was to stay under 200 degrees F, preferably in the 180-190 range. Now with the synthetic trans fluids, most experts are saying 210 or 220 degrees aren't all that bad. What I haven't been able to find out is where the Scangauge gets the temp reading. All the old data is based on fluid in the pan temp, but the Chevy sensor might be elsewhere, such as on the output to the cooler, or in line back from the cooler, which could really mess up the whole idea.

Do you have an Allison with your diesel?

[markopolo]

GM 4L80-E 4 speed automatic transmission in my van. It showed just over 100 F after a short, slow 4 mile round-trip to get diesel.
It'll be good to watch this. I'll post the temperature again after a longer run.

I don't know if this photo helps solve the mystery: http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=171893

Do you also have the 4L80E?

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

GM 4L80-E 4 speed automatic transmission in my van. It showed just over 100 F after a short, slow 4 mile round-trip to get diesel.
It'll be good to watch this. I'll post the temperature again after a longer run.

I don't know if this photo helps solve the mystery: http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=171893

Do you also have the 4L80E?

yep, same one we have with the 6.0 gasser. Most transmission folks, and GM, are recommending changing the fluid in all the older transmissions that came with Dexron 3-4 etc to Dexron 6 synthetic. I just did our Roadmaster wagon which has a 4L60E, and it did smooth it out a bit, and having the extra temperature window is never a bad thing.

Interesting pic, it looks like the sensor isn't actually in the fluid in the pan, or in a line?

[markopolo]

That photo probably just adds to the mystery as it is just not zoomed in enough to see what is going on.

From what I've read that temperature sensor is there to cause the torque converter clutch to lock-up to get an overheated transmission's temperature down. So I'll assume it is in the right place for what we're using it for.

Thanks for the info on temperatures and the tip to switch to Dexron 6 synthetic. Some stuff I read mentioned a filter. Do you know if that is easily accessible on a 4L80E transmission? If it is, would you replace it periodically?

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

That photo probably just adds to the mystery as it is just not zoomed in enough to see what is going on.

From what I've read that temperature sensor is there to cause the torque converter clutch to lock-up to get an overheated transmission's temperature down. So I'll assume it is in the right place for what we're using it for.

Thanks for the info on temperatures and the tip to switch to Dexron 6 synthetic. Some stuff I read mentioned a filter. Do you know if that is easily accessible on a 4L80E transmission? If it is, would you replace it periodically?

There is a filter in the 4L80E, and it is the "old" style fabric mat type that sits in the fluid (most newer styles have a metal mess screen filter located at the entrance to the valve body and don't get as gunked up, I rarely change that style). You have to remove the pan to change it, which at least on our 07 is pretty easy, but can be messy as there is no drain plug in it. The change to Dexron 6 is a bit of pain itself, as you only get about 1/2 the fluid out each change. Most are recommending 3 changes to get most of it out, and the fluids are compatible, so you don't have downside risk. You can also take it in and have all the fluid changed and flushed by machine and be done with it. They will also change the filter at extra cost, if you want. IMO, while you have the pan off, it is always a good idea to put a drain plug in it. You can then do a fluid change without the mess. It is especially handy if you do the Dexron 6 change yourself with multiple changes. With a drain plug it is no harder than an oil change. They make kits to add a plug that are basically a bulkhead fitting, but I don't care for that idea. They always seem to work lose when you remove the plug a few times. I just use a brass pipe bushing, usually 1/2 by 1/4 and silver solder it to the pan bottom through a drilled hole, and then cut the inside flush with a hand grinder. I use a brass or stainless hex plug in it. You can also just buy an aluminum, or steel, aftermarket pan for it that has the plug already in it. One person on the Yahoo board had trouble with one of the aluminum ones not being able to install easily because of a crossmember in the way, but IIRC it was on a later 6.0 gasser, so yours may be different.

There is always a disclaimer on changing transmission fluids. If the fluid has not been changed regularly and is very dirty, you stand a chance of breaking lose debris with the clean, more detergent, fluid. This is even more likely when a flushing machine is used, I have read. The debris can plug the small passages of the transmission cause problems. From what we have seen of your van, it looks like it was very well cared for, so that is probably not an issue.

I will be doing the fluid change in ours this winter, and putting in the drainplug, so I will get some pics as I do it. I will probably be doing fluid changes every 15K miles with a filter change every third time, which is probably overkill, but definitely safe, especially with all the weight we haul around. Fluid is cheap compared to a transmission. We are at 5 years old and out of warranty, so the Dexcool is also going to go away (changing to Zerex GO5), and the differential fluid will be changed out to Redline.

[markopolo]

There's a Torx T-55 head drain plug on my 4L80E transmission's pan. It is recessed. Maybe you have one as well.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

There's a Torx T-55 head drain plug on my 4L80E transmission's pan. It is recessed. Maybe you have one as well.

If you have a drain plug you are a lucky one, ours is just a plain steel pan. Is you pan steel or aluminum?

edit-I just did a bit or reading and looked at some pix. Couldn't find which have or don't have the drain, but both are out there. I did find lots of warnings about the plugs being frozen in place, or stripped. It looks like the just extruded the metal up and threaded it without an insert, so it is probably pretty fragile. Still better than nothing, and if it strips, you just replace it with a solid insert in the hole.