Roadtrek 190P Suspension Lift

[Mycopsycho]

After several months of researching discussion groups concerning Roadtrek suspension lifts (including all 34 pages of Photog's Lifted Suspension 2009 Roadtrek 190V) and pouring over product websites, I finally pulled the trigger last week and had Denver Spring and Suspension do a 2.5” lift on my 2015 Roadtrek 190P. DSNS has an excellent reputation in this area and they had done work for me in the past on other vehicles so I was confident that they would to a good job and they didn’t disappoint. They’re also very nice people to work with.

Based on his reputation (see mexincandoctor’s comments in Photog’s thread), I contacted Bill Erb at Valley Spring Works in Dixon, CA, and started discussing with him having a set of front coil springs made up for me. As it would happen, he was just in the process of lifting another Roadtrek similar to mine to that experience was immediate and helpful and I ordered a set of coils based on that information. The coil springs were sent directly to DSNS so I don’t have the exact specs but Bill said they would be made from 1” wire and length to achieve a 2.5” lift. What I do know is that the springs were very heavy and the folks at DSNS were quite impressed with them. DSNS installed the coil springs, new Bilstein shocks (front and back), and added re-arched leafs in the rear.

My immediate impression with the lift is positive. In most aspects the ride and handling is improved though the rear springs are pretty stiff and there is a jar or bang when hitting one of Denver’s recessed manhole covers. The frontend handling is good. When driving on undulating pavement, where previously I would get bounce in the frontend, the van rides right through the unevenness without the bounce. The folks at DSNS noted that before the lift I was pretty much riding on the front bump stops and hence the frequent jarring when hitting a bump.

It’s my perception that there is more road noise and rumbling coming from the frontend. Noise may be getting transmitted up through the new coil springs. I haven’t driven out on the freeway/interstate yet with the modded van so this could just be the result of Denver’s abominable streets. Booster has commented at some length about this issue of road noise in another thread (see post #18 and following). Maybe one day I’ll don noise cancelling ear phones and go for a ride and see/feel what is really going on. You can see it is riding higher in the front than in the rear so we'll see what affect that has on steering.

Before the lift I got some drift or wandering from the frontend when driving requiring frequent correction and attention. IDK, is this oversteering? After the lift this seems to have gone away. Highway driving with heavy truck traffic will tell the tale on this, though.

One of the main purposes I had in having my Roadtrek lifted was to give it more ground clearance. Reading the horror stories of people who had had holding tanks ruptured and sewer lines ripped out had me quite spooked. I also don’t have the best of parking spaces at my home and after a severe dip (caused by severe cambering for drainage) backing into the space I end up with about 3” of clearance, barely for me toes to fit under. My expectations for this have been met. Previously, as the front wheels dropped into the depression, there would be a clunk as the frontend dropped down. That’s all gone and the van just rides right through it. Before the lift the height from ground to fender at the wheel in front was 34” and in the rear 35.5”. After the lift the height was 36.5” in front and 37” in the rear. Driver side and passenger side dimensions were the same in both cases. So I achieved a 2.5” lift in front and a 1.5” lift in the rear. This is consistent with the results that Bill Erb related to me on a Roadtrek that he had recently lifted. I’ve included a before and after photo to show the difference.

So far, with only city driving as my experience with the new 2.5” lift, I am satisfied that I achieved what I was hoping to. Next week I head off on a road trip to Western Montana and will have some road experience to add here.

You can probably tell that I’m not really much of a tech guy when it comes to vehicles and there are probably many unanswered questions. I mainly wanted to share my experience in case someone is on the fence about lifting their Roadtrek. I had some very anxious moments leading up to this wondering if I was doing the right thing, what was I missing, what would I and up with. If you get it wrong, it can really be wrong. I also had a very negative experience with another suspension shop who was going to use aluminum spacers with the OE coil springs. Everyone I talked to or communicated with cried No! No! No! Fortunately, after waiting 2 1/2 months for parts and getting very anxious, I pulled the plugged on the work and went to DSNS where they knew what they were doing.

Bernie

[markopolo]

Nice writeup I bet it looks good. Some here might be curious to know if there's any bowing of the front coils.

Did you get an alignment after the lift? If not it's a good idea to get it done. My van drove very straight after the lift but that was because of excess toe in. An alignment was needed.

At idle, when I'm outside the van, it seems noticeably quieter after the lift

Photos would great if you can.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Nice writeup I bet it looks good. Some here might be curious to know if there's any bowing of the front coils.

Did you get an alignment after the lift? If not it's a good idea to get it done. My van drove very straight after the lift but that was because of excess toe in. An alignment was needed.

At idle, when I'm outside the van, it seems noticeably quieter after the lift

Photos would great if you can.

The bowing was going to be my first question, also, as the 2.5" lift with a 1" spring would be similar to a the ones that Photog had tried, I think. At 2" longer on the spring, IIRC, he did contact the knuckle. We would have to assume the shop that installed the springs would have noticed it though. As in the other thread, you can see the area pretty well. I think there were pix of Photogs and the Mexican Doctor's clearances.

The noise change could just be because you are off the bump stops, which probably were damping some of it. The springs are would almost certainly transmit more noise than the rubber beehive would.

[booster]

Looking back into the Photog thread, it sounds like the springs that Erb provided would be very similar to the last springs that Photog tested (I think the last ones). Here is how is described them.

"We have approximately 4500 pounds on the front suspension of our 2008 Chevy Express 3500. I recommend these springs for anyone with that much weight, looking to get 2" of lift, over the mashed-below-factory ride height. I do not know what they are listed as, but in my e-mail with Otto-Max, we have been describing them as "Set Down TTC-1618". They are 1425 lbs/in spring rate, 18.7" free length, 8 coils of 1" diameter material."

Photog also summed up later that the ride was a bit "wallowy" in his terms, or a bit soft and bouncy, but that this is just the way it is when you increase the amount of travel with lower spring rate and not hitting the bump stops. He noted the springs were close but did not hit the knuckle. It is good to have the Erb source springs confirm similar positive results.

I wonder if Erb works with the 1.032 wire diameter that has been mentioned being used on some of the mass produced springs? If so, he could probably work his magic on a spring that would be between the original Tufftruck spring and the one that mycopsycho got. That would make 3 designs to get the approximate 2" lift, so everyone could chose based on their desired results, firm/max control (original Tufftruck design), least firm/least harsh (the ones mycopsycho got), or the theoretical in between one.

It is great to see another lift done that has a satisfied customer. It also seems to show higher satisfaction % with softer rather than firmer springs, which is really not all that surprising, I think. Lots more people buy smoother riding, lower performance, cars, than buy rougher riding, better handling sport cars. It is all in what you are looking for.

[Mycopsycho]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Nice writeup I bet it looks good. Some here might be curious to know if there's any bowing of the front coils.

Did you get an alignment after the lift? If not it's a good idea to get it done. My van drove very straight after the lift but that was because of excess toe in. An alignment was needed.

At idle, when I'm outside the van, it seems noticeably quieter after the lift

Photos would great if you can.

Work from DSNS included alignment. That was done yesterday and there is excess toe in which was corrected....I included before and after pics but haven't gotten under it to take any. Missed my chance yesterday when it was on the lift for alignment. I'll try to take some more pics when I get a chance....The coils are really substantial and I don't think there's any bowing.

[Mycopsycho]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Nice writeup I bet it looks good. Some here might be curious to know if there's any bowing of the front coils.

Did you get an alignment after the lift? If not it's a good idea to get it done. My van drove very straight after the lift but that was because of excess toe in. An alignment was needed.

At idle, when I'm outside the van, it seems noticeably quieter after the lift

Photos would great if you can.

I've added some photos of the front coil springs. There are 8 coils.

[AZ ADVenturist]

Thanks for posting this & welcome to the forum.
Glad to see another satisfactory Chevy lift!
I hope to have ours done after this travel season & a few more
miles on our 2013. But after our less than satisfied experience
A couple years ago on our '02. I'm a little gun shy & stuck in the
Boondocks of N. Ariz.
Question - did they change control arms or any other steering &/or
Suspension components?
Thanks again, Ric. in Arizona.

[Mycopsycho]

Originally Posted by AZ ADVenturist

Thanks for posting this & welcome to the forum.
Glad to see another satisfactory Chevy lift!
I hope to have ours done after this travel season & a few more
miles on our 2013. But after our less than satisfied experience
A couple years ago on our '02. I'm a little gun shy & stuck in the
Boondocks of N. Ariz.
Question - did they change control arms or any other steering &/or
Suspension components?
Thanks again, Ric. in Arizona.

No. The only changes were the Bilstein shocks. Steering was not affected at this height of lift. My RT seems to handle better and is a relatively smoother ride although the rear suspension is somewhat stiff.

Working with Bill Erb at Valley Spring Works (Dixon, CA) was very satisfactory. He has a lot of experience working on the Roadtrek suspensions and he has all the specs for the coil spring for various models and lift height. I can't recommend him to highly as others have done.

Had a chance today to do some freeway driving and that was a big change. There was no drifting as before and the RT tracked very steady.

Over at the Roadtrekking Facebook page there was some concern about the center of gravity rising with the lift. I can't say that I've noticed any instability. As a matter of fact, there is much less rocking back and forth when turning in and out of drives and no leaning on tight freeway ramps.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mycopsycho

No. The only changes were the Bilstein shocks. Steering was not affected at this height of lift. My RT seems to handle better and is a relatively smoother ride although the rear suspension is somewhat stiff.

Working with Bill Erb at Valley Spring Works (Dixon, CA) was very satisfactory. He has a lot of experience working on the Roadtrek suspensions and he has all the specs for the coil spring for various models and lift height. I can't recommend him to highly as others have done.

Had a chance today to do some freeway driving and that was a big change. There was no drifting as before and the RT tracked very steady.

Over at the Roadtrekking Facebook page there was some concern about the center of gravity rising with the lift. I can't say that I've noticed any instability. As a matter of fact, there is much less rocking back and forth when turning in and out of drives and no leaning on tight freeway ramps.

It appears you are getting very similar results to what most of us have by going higher, which is nearly no downside and lots of upsides. Having Erb as the go to guy is great, as once Tufftruck bailed on supplying Roadtreks, there was nowhere to go to get custom springs and good knowledge.

The rear getting stiffer than it was is a bit interesting, if all they did was rearch the rear springs. Reacrching puts more curve in the spring to raise it, but at 2" that isn't a lot. The springs would come out close to the same rate as before, I would think. It would be interesting to see what they did with the overload leaf when they rearched the springs. Did they leave it in the original position and let the smaller leafs carry more load, or did the move the overload leaf up to pick up load all the time, or something in between? A pic of where the overload leaf is sitting would be interesting to see. We have actually rearched our overload leaf away from the others, so it rarely hits them at all. We found that on even moderate bumps the overload leaf would "slap" the the rest of the spring pack causing harshness and noise. We have air bags which had lifted us off the overload leaf, but it would still hit on bumps. With it further away, the rear of our van got substantially smoother and quieter with everything else left the same (airbag pressure, height, springs).

A lot of us were worried about the center of gravity going up and causing issues, but I think every one of us has found the handling, sway, and stability actually got better. Getting the suspension to the height it was designed to run at is a huge benefit. I am surprised that Campskunk didn't chime in on that issue, as he had done a lift on his, very top heavy with solar, Chevy without issue.

I went back over the numbers in the Photog thread, and the Erb spring looks like it is actually a bit softer (lower spring rate) than the stock Chevy spring (especially when consider it was also getting stiffness from the bump stop). That is assuming that it is similar to the same size Tufftruck spring that Photog used, which it seems to be. It is about 30% softer than the original Tufftruck springs like we have. The softer springs in the front will actually help reduce understeer, which is the wandering and big steering corrections that stock units have, so that is an added benefit, most likely.


Very good information, thanks for lettings us all in on what you are finding.

[AZ ADVenturist]

In addition to handling & ride quality - the next Big question is cost?
How much should be allowed for budget?
What is most cost effective - airbags vs. rearch rear spring pack & least labor intensive?
We are prepared to spend $$ for a quality job, but prefer not to do like last time & end up with a half a** job that cost to much!
Thnx for the input, Ric. in Az?

[Mycopsycho]

Originally Posted by AZ ADVenturist

In addition to handling & ride quality - the next Big question is cost?
How much should be allowed for budget?
What is most cost effective - airbags vs. rearch rear spring pack & least labor intensive?
We are prepared to spend $$ for a quality job, but prefer not to do like last time & end up with a half a** job that cost to much!
Thnx for the input, Ric. in Az?

My cost was $2,224 which included front coils from Valley Spring Works in CA shipped directly to DSNS, 2 sets of Bistein shocks, overload leaf springs, reaching, and labor.

Today I took my van back to DSNS to retorque the u-bolts. Had a chance to talk to the tech who handled my mod about the issue of bowing. He said that when they installed the first coil spring there was bowing which was a concern. But when the other coil spring went in the bowing vanished. He checked again today and said the coil springs were sitting just fine.

[Mycopsycho]

I recently returned from a 2000+ mile road trip from Denver to Western Montana and I wanted to follow up with my observations regarding the 2 1/2” lift and Bilstein replacement shocks I had done on my Roadtrek 190P. Handling is in general very good. Drifting is minimal. There is no porpoising or wallowing. The vehicle is steady in heavy winds, both crosswinds and tailwinds. Passing trucks have no affect on handling. Driving my Roadtrek in wind, and I had some serious wind for a couple of days in Wyoming and Montana, is no longer the stressful and tiring chore that it was before the lift work. There is still heavy bumping on strips in the road and pot holes but it’s a heavily sprung one ton vehicle and I expect some of that. My 3/4 tone HD pickup road rougher than my 1/2 ton pickup. The extra ground clearance really gave me some peace of mind. I wasn’t overly concerned crossing speed bumps and driving through steep dips going into gas stations and businesses. I had occasion to drive on a lot of dirt roads and the vehicle handled them well including washboard. There was no wiggling or jingling around but I do take it slow and easy on these roads. The extra ground clearance also was welcome. I am very pleased with the lift job on my Roadtrek and I think it has made it a better vehicle and more enjoyable to drive. My next big test comes soon since I'm leaving for SE Alaska in a couple of weeks and that's 3,300 miles each way.

Note: I've been asked if the lift affected fuel consumption. I really have no idea but I averaged 17.2 mpg on this trip and I think that is respectable for such a heavy, high profile vehicle and a lot of mountain driving.