Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion

[GeorgeRa]

Perhaps you need to purge the air from your hydronic system, I would try to keep the rubber down first.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Perhaps you need to purge the air from your hydronic system, I would try to keep the rubber down first.

[silex840]

New guy here! I read through all 19 pages and have reached the decision that the Axion will be my first RV! It is literally the only Dodge Ram PM chassis that can tow anywhere close to the Sprinter's 5000 lbs since it's rated at ~4500 lbs by Carado. Plus as mentioned the rebadged Sonne's all have chassis upgrades done so it's perfect for my use case. The minimalist install of RV components really help it here. Sometimes KISS is best they say. I also plan to do Aluminess roof rack and ladder and place the solar on top to create a high enough gap to install another fan in front of the AC unit closer to the front of the van. I will opt for the UHG, but will instead use a GoalZero Yeti 3000 as my Lithium battery option since it has the added benefit of being a portable generator.

That's about my conclusions I've reached for now. Thank you all for the wonderful reviews and discussions and keep 'em coming!

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Perhaps you need to purge the air from your hydronic system, I would try to keep the rubber down first.

Oh, gosh, I thought he was posting from Australia.

Seriously, I've had that problem with my pics, too. Even when I saved them properly, they sometimes turn sideways when I post...

[booster]

You will also have to get a look at the maximum gross combined weight spec so you can truly define how much you can tow within spec. Most of the 1500s have a gross combined of about 11,500#, so if you wind up loaded to near max on the van itself, and remember you have to allow for your tongue weight in the van gross weight, you could have substantially less towing capacity. The specs that the RV folks give you usually say you can tow UP TO whatever amount of pounds, not that you can always tow that much.

Have you ever tried to pull a boat out of the water, or get a heavy trailer moving on slippery ground with front drive? I have found it not to be a very pleasant experience in many cases, at least with the cars I have had.

[Smith101]

Originally Posted by silex840

New guy here! I read through all 19 pages and have reached the decision that the Axion will be my first RV! It is literally the only Dodge Ram PM chassis that can tow anywhere close to the Sprinter's 5000 lbs since it's rated at ~4500 lbs by Carado. Plus as mentioned the rebadged Sonne's all have chassis upgrades done so it's perfect for my use case. The minimalist install of RV components really help it here. Sometimes KISS is best they say. I also plan to do Aluminess roof rack and ladder and place the solar on top to create a high enough gap to install another fan in front of the AC unit closer to the front of the van. I will opt for the UHG, but will instead use a GoalZero Yeti 3000 as my Lithium battery option since it has the added benefit of being a portable generator.

That's about my conclusions I've reached for now. Thank you all for the wonderful reviews and discussions and keep 'em coming!

The Yeti sounds good in theory but may be too big to fit inside. And also figure out how you’re going to charge it because it will only accept 250-300 watt max charge. All Axions come with a 2000 watt inverter w 5 outlets. If you get the lithium’s they are hung underneath and don’t use interior space. If you’re serious about buying soon, find one of the many dealers whose had these on the lot for months and offer them $60k with lithiums or $52k without. You shouldn’t have to go thru many dealers to get a yes (I heard Campingworld San Diego offered that price). But before you close demand the Alde 3010 be swapped for a 3020 so it will work above 3300’. That’s about $2k to do yourself.

[Smith101]

Originally Posted by booster

You will also have to get a look at the maximum gross combined weight spec so you can truly define how much you can tow within spec. Most of the 1500s have a gross combined of about 11,500#, so if you wind up loaded to near max on the van itself, and remember you have to allow for your tongue weight in the van gross weight, you could have substantially less towing capacity. The specs that the RV folks give you usually say you can tow UP TO whatever amount of pounds, not that you can always tow that much.

Have you ever tried to pull a boat out of the water, or get a heavy trailer moving on slippery ground with front drive? I have found it not to be a very pleasant experience in many cases, at least with the cars I have had.

I haven’t weighed mine but it’s advertised at under 7000 lb. it’s hard to imagine how you could get even 1000lb load even with 400lb of adults, full fluids, etc. there just is not space for it. The LWB versions come with a lot more weight installed as well as more space to load. I can imagine they’d almost always be near max—like an Aktiv with a family of four. You might add a trailer but at it’s empty weight you would be maxed out. I drove an unladen Aktiv and it felt ponderous compared to the Axion. Also, there’s a lot of front overhang in the Promaster, so there’s plenty of weight on the drive wheels and in the shorty less behind.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

Oh, gosh, I thought he was posting from Australia.

Seriously, I've had that problem with my pics, too. Even when I saved them properly, they sometimes turn sideways when I post...

Originally Posted by gilo20

Shower in a van doesn't need to catch any space. It should become a useful sit.

I used Adobe Lightroom and export modified pictures at proper pixel linear count of max 1200 and file size of 0.5 Mb. Exporting from Lightroom always works, saving depends which software is used.

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I used Adobe Lightroom and export modified pictures at proper pixel linear count of max 1200 and file size of 0.5 Mb. Exporting from Lightroom always works, saving depends which software is used.

Thanks. I have Photoshop and would guess the images I've had problems with are the ones I merely save in Windows file viewer without running them through Adobe first. Next time I have an issue, I'll try that.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Smith101

I haven’t weighed mine but it’s advertised at under 7000 lb. it’s hard to imagine how you could get even 1000lb load even with 400lb of adults, full fluids, etc. there just is not space for it. The LWB versions come with a lot more weight installed as well as more space to load. I can imagine they’d almost always be near max—like an Aktiv with a family of four. You might add a trailer but at it’s empty weight you would be maxed out. I drove an unladen Aktiv and it felt ponderous compared to the Axion. Also, there’s a lot of front overhang in the Promaster, so there’s plenty of weight on the drive wheels and in the shorty less behind.

Front wheel weight will help, but the short wheelbase will likely make the front going lighter under load worse. With front drive, the front tries to lift from the pull on the hitch and can cost you a lot of traction. With rear drive, the drive wheels get more weight when you pull hard.

[silex840]

Originally Posted by Smith101

The Yeti sounds good in theory but may be too big to fit inside. And also figure out how you’re going to charge it because it will only accept 250-300 watt max charge. All Axions come with a 2000 watt inverter w 5 outlets. If you get the lithium’s they are hung underneath and don’t use interior space. If you’re serious about buying soon, find one of the many dealers whose had these on the lot for months and offer them $60k with lithiums or $52k without. You shouldn’t have to go thru many dealers to get a yes (I heard Campingworld San Diego offered that price). But before you close demand the Alde 3010 be swapped for a 3020 so it will work above 3300’. That’s about $2k to do yourself.

Great advice thanks!

To those saying FWD sucks for towing. Sure that might be true, but Ram still has the tow weight of all three models as 5,100 lb so the 5,000 lb hitch upgrade on these shorter wheelbase Axion should be more than up for the job. GCWR be damned! JK ya can’t go over 11,500 lb fully loaded. Sigh...

Has anybody else noticed there two different lighting panels? One with a circle dimmer and two buttons and the other with no circle and three buttons. What’s the difference?

[BBQ]

.

It depends on how much you want to tow.

When the vehicle weighs 8000 lb, FWD or RWD is not going to make a big difference on 99% of the terrains.

You might find it challenging on slippery uphill surfaces.
But then that can be bad for RWD too.

[booster]

Originally Posted by silex840

Great advice thanks!

To those saying FWD sucks for towing. Sure that might be true, but Ram still has the tow weight of all three models as 5,100 lb so the 5,000 lb hitch upgrade on these shorter wheelbase Axion should be more than up for the job. GCWR be damned! JK ya can’t go over 11,500 lb fully loaded. Sigh...

Has anybody else noticed there two different lighting panels? One with a circle dimmer and two buttons and the other with no circle and three buttons. What’s the difference?

I guess I don't understand what you are saying, but that is the way it is.

The Ram specs are for empty vans, not RV conversions, so you need to allow for the extra weight of the conversion. This includes the gross weight, gross combined, tongue, and axle weights as well as the tire load ratings. You can do whatever you want and you may or may not have problems, but you did ask for input.

If you think they wouldn't rate it for 5100# if it couldn't do it, I would agree, on dry flat pavement or other good surfaces and not with a full load in the van. If you have never towed with front drive, fairly heavy for the vehicle, and in varying traction conditions, you wouldn't understand how easy it is to lose front traction. When a 3000#+ front drive car can't pull a 1500# trailer over a sloped curb because the front tires are on grass, I would call that a problem, and I have had that happen. That same car would easily pull 2500# plus on pavement, so you would never guess it wouldn't be OK all the time.

It is obvious you have already made up your mind, so no reason to go further.

[booster]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

It depends on how much you want to tow.

When the vehicle weighs 8000 lb, FWD or RWD is not going to make a big difference on 99% of the terrains.

You might find it challenging on slippery uphill surfaces.
But then that can be bad for RWD too.

Maybe true, depending on where you go

If he tries pulling 5K with the RV built Promaster, it will certainly need a high capacity equalizing hitch setup to try to pull the front end back down under load. Don't want to be looking like the rigs at the tractor pulls doing wheelies.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by booster

Maybe true, depending on where you go

If he tries pulling 5K with the RV built Promaster, it will certainly need a high capacity equalizing hitch setup to try to pull the front end back down under load. Don't want to be looking like the rigs at the tractor pulls doing wheelies.

Agreed. 5k will not be in the cards.

The GCVWR is 11,500
The RV weighs 8,000

That leaves approx 3,000 lbs.

Nobody tows at max.

[silex840]

I plan to mainly use the coach with a tow dolly to move cars around two wheels up. This setup should put much less strain and tongue weight on the hitch with four axles behind it with zero overhang.

Where you guys getting that it weighs 8500 lb? The GVWR is 8550 lb so I'm guessing that's the number being quoted. This is the max loaded including the occupant and cargo carrying capacity. The brochure says the loaded vehicle weight is 6853 lb which is GVWR minus OCC but also can be described as empty tanks and full gas aka loaded vehicle weight which is why it can tow 4532 lb. Has anybody had a chance to weigh the Axion at a weigh station stop to verify?

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by silex840

I plan to mainly use the coach with a tow dolly to move cars around two wheels up. This setup should put much less strain and tongue weight on the hitch with four axles behind it with zero overhang.

Where you guys getting that it weighs 8500 lb? The GVWR is 8550 lb so I'm guessing that's the number being quoted. This is the max loaded including the occupant and cargo carrying capacity. The brochure says the loaded vehicle weight is 6853 lb which is GVWR minus OCC but also can be described as empty tanks and full gas aka loaded vehicle weight which is why it can tow 4532 lb. Has anybody had a chance to weigh the Axion at a weigh station stop to verify?

You will have the same tongue weight whether you tow flat or 2-up.
This is not important because they will probably be close to zero.


GVWR is the legal limit of a vehicle. It is not a measurement.
GCVWR is the legal limit of a vehicle plus the tow.

GCVWR is the number you have to pay attention to.

You have to go to a weigh station to weigh your loaded vehicle to find out how much you can tow. What the brochure says (6853) is irrelevant in the real world.


8,000 lb is what most ClassB RV weigh. Yours might weigh less, but it won't be too far off.

ps. Nobody tows at max GCVWR. Some safety margin is recommended. YMMV.

[silex840]

Originally Posted by BBQ

You will have the same tongue weight whether you tow flat or 2-up.
This is not important because they will probably be close to zero.


GVWR is the legal limit of a vehicle. It is not a measurement.
GCVWR is the legal limit of a vehicle plus the tow.

GCVWR is the number you have to pay attention to.

You have to go to a weigh station to weigh your loaded vehicle to find out how much you can tow. What the brochure says (6853) is irrelevant in the real world.


8,000 lb is what most ClassB RV weigh. Yours might weigh less, but it won't be too far off.

ps. Nobody tows at max GCVWR. Some safety margin is recommended. YMMV.

I wouldn't be surprised if 6853 lbs is accurate though just because the Carado and Sunlight brands have the most slimmed down RV structure I have seen among the PM platforms used by other coach makers.

So let me get this straight. The solar panels feed the AGM directly and not the lithiums. So if I'm looking at a base Axion and do not intend to get the ecotrek 400, then there is no reason to get the UG nor voltstart because it would be useless to use with AGM correct? I plan to expand the AGM's with two more identical units and get 600Ah out of the setup. Can the 200W of solar and the stock alternator do the job without modification?

By the way, here is the lighting panels I previously mentioned. See the difference?

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by silex840

I wouldn't be surprised if 6853 lbs is accurate though just because the Carado and Sunlight brands have the most slimmed down RV structure I have seen among PM platforms from other coach makers.

...

The 6853 is the dry weight... before fuel and water, and food, and supplies, and 2x170 lb standard human.

The Carado is shorter and lighter than the other RV based on the Promaster 3500. It will weigh less. By how much? It is anybody's guess.

YMMV

[silex840]

Originally Posted by BBQ

The 6853 is the dry weight... before fuel and water, and food, and supplies, and 2x170 lb standard human.

The Carado is shorter and lighter than the other RV based on the Promaster 3500. It will weigh less. By how much? It is anybody's guess.

YMMV

For some reason I thought it was the curb weight which includes all engine fluids and full gas tank. Although Carado lists it on the brochure as "loaded vehicle weight" which is what threw me off.