Any updates on Hymer/Roadtrek/Carado future?

[RossWilliams]

"From following the various owner forums... and discussing it with a few dealers along the way, it was hugely expensive. "

Whether you can glean accurate information from those sources is doubtful. But even if true, the glitzy systems were also hugely expensive.

Its certainly possible that the warranty costs on the lithium systems have been a surprise. But that doesn't have much to do with the warranty length, those problems appeara to be occurring in new units that would have been under warranty in any case.

[RossWilliams]

According to this story the CEO of Rapido says they are going to honor all past Roadtrek warrantiies:


"The CEO also said the company will honour all Roadtrek warranties for vehicles sold prior to the receivership, which was a concern among consumers, and that it expects to be able to produce 1,000 vehicles per year."

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Its certainly possible that the warranty costs on the lithium systems have been a surprise. But that doesn't have much to do with the warranty length, those problems appeara to be occurring in new units that would have been under warranty in any case.

Not quite true. Many people with the original systems... from 2015 onwards... now 4 years into their lithiums are still having expensive issues. Some have replaced 4 or 5 batteries... not to mention inverters... and underhood generators. Granted the internet only hears from those with problems, but still... it certainly kept me sticking with AGMs.

[RossWilliams]

Well, apparently the new owners don't think its a big problem since they are going to honor the warranties. My 2015 warranty book says the batteries are only covered for a year. I have AGM's, which I am happy about given I store and sometimes use the RV in severe sub-zero weather.

It seems to me the biggest beneficiaries of the warranties being honored will be the folks that bought a new one recently. From what I was told, new RV's often have problems and take a year or so to work out the kinks. Most of the components have manufacturers warranties during that time. By the time the Roadtrek warranty kicks in the initial problems have been fixed and normal wear, like tires and batteries, aren't covered. So the actual cost of extending the warranty to six years may not be all that high.

[mumkin]

Yes, AGMs were never covered for the 6 years, but the Ecotrek system is covered for the full 6 years, and there is where the cost is. Just the troubleshooting labor costs have been very high. Mainly because few of the dealers were proficient at locating the issues.

There are still a number of questions on the warranty that will likely eventually be answered. The new owner stated that warranties will be covered on those of us who purchased before Feb 15. But lots of people grabbed up the bargains on the lots as dealers cleared their lots and many dealers provided free 3rd party warranties or discounted warranties. These people are in a gray area right now. But most feel that they got good enough deals that it is not a major problem for them.

Another gray area is the Hymer products. I presume that although the new purchaser only mentioned Roadtrek warranties, it must also cover the Hymer half of the company. But will the Aktiv, etc, now be badged Roadtrek? Or will they now be owned/produced by Thor. All we know for sure is that the Roadtrek purchaser has the right to complete and sell the products sitting on the factory line. After that.....

[RossWilliams]

Actually, we don't know what is included in the sale and it hasn't been finalized, so everything is a bit grey. But the CEO said those "sold prior to receivership" and the ones on dealer lots were obviously sold to the dealer before then. If it only includes the Roadtrek branded RV's, then the receiver will still have to include the other warranties when sorting out payments to other creditors.

One of the facebook groups had a post by someone that suggested the typical way this worked when a company bought on ongoing concern out of receivership was that they bought insurance to cover outstanding warranties. The court then took those off the list of unsecured creditors who needed to be paid out of the sale proceeds. If that's what's going on, then the insurance may well cover the Hymer branded rv's.

I doubt there was ever a six year warranty on the batteries any more than there was on the tires. Like tires, batteries wear out, quite quickly if they are heavily used and/or deeply discharged.

[booster]

IIRC there was a period in time when the etrek AGMs were covered for 5 or 6 years. It was early on and before the lithiums were available and Roadtrek was getting very bad press due to lots of battery failures in etreks. Jim Hammill make a big deal about buying with confidence with no battery issues when he put the warranty. I think they pretty quickly figured out the replacing 8 AGMs ever year or two, which was common then per reports from owners, was an unsustainable thing to do, so they didn't provide it for long. We have had a few of the owners of long AGM warranties on here that had their claims denied by Roadtrek for the often used "abuse" excuse and were looking for help in improving reliability.

[avanti]

I suspect that the logic of the situation is that units sold after Feb 15 were sold without warranties and that the purchasers knew, or should have known this.

[RossWilliams]

That may seem logical to you. But when the dealer bought them they had a warranty. So if they re-sold them at a deep discount without the warranty, they would have a cause for damages wouldn't they? Are you suggesting that if someone bought a used Roadtrek after the receivership began, the warranty was no longer transferable?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

That may seem logical to you. But when the dealer bought them they had a warranty. So if they re-sold them at a deep discount without the warranty, they would have a cause for damages wouldn't the?

Not only does it seem logical, it IS logical.
Dealers do not take title to the vehicles they sell. OEM warranties have nothing to do with dealers (except perhaps an obligation to honor them). They are a contract between the OEM and the retail purchaser.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Not only does it seem logical, it IS logical.
Dealers do not take title to the vehicles they sell. OEM warranties have nothing to do with dealers (except perhaps an obligation to honor them). They are a contract between the OEM and the retail purchaser.

I agree, and would add that dealers/resellers in almost all businesses are at risk of stuff like this, and I would consider it a part of doing business. Most products are a bankruptcy, recall, etc away from losing a bunch of value at the end seller. Some may lose some money, but it can also be written off by businesses so that can lessen the blow. There is also a very good possibility that the vans at the dealer were financed and from what we have been told the banks would have those vans as secured loans. To prevent the high costs of repossessing and selling them, it is very likely the banks would reduce the payoff on them to help spread the pain out. Warranties being there or not being there is essentially a non issue except for the loss of value selling the stock on hand due to reputation loss of Roadtrek. As Avanti said, after that it is a contract between the manufacturer and consumer so dealer not involved at all except to work in the middle. Since Roadtrek was gone at the time, there was no warranty from them for the customer to lose so it makes sense there is none to reinstate, unless it is for pure good will. Customers before the closing did lose warranties that they had with Roadtrek so even though still good will it is much more valid to reinstate them.

[RossWilliams]

"Dealers do not take title to the vehicles they sell."

You are confusing title and ownership. The retailer had paid for the units they sold. They owned them, that's why they could still sell them. That payment included the right to include the manufacturer's warranty. That warranty didn't disappear when Roadtrek went into receivership any more than the rv disappeared. Roadtrek was still legally liable for it in the same way they were any previous warranty. Of course, its plausible that those warranties won't be honored, but it isn't "logical".

And if you want to understand the distrinction between title and ownership you should read the receivers report on all the vehicles in Hymer NA inventory and who owns them. Well, maybe you will understand it. I certainly didn't fully. But its clear they aren't the same.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

You are confusing title and ownership.

No, I am not.

[Davydd]

The way I see it, Rapido bought the rights to a brand, Roadtrek. That brand now has to be protected (e.g. value) and that is the only obligation they have to legacy customers is how they perceive that brand. If it takes honoring warranties to keep the "family" of Roadtrek owners happy then that's what they need to do to not have a revile brand. That's just business common sense. I doubt legalities enter into it. Maybe there is a negotiated condition of sale. I could be wrong but I am not a lawyer or have a stake in this so will not go beyond my opinion to explore it.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I doubt there was ever a six year warranty on the batteries any more than there was on the tires.

Doubt it if you like, but you would be obviously wrong. The whole point of the 6 year warranty was to cover those batteries... and give people the confidence to buy them.

[booster]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RossWilliams
I doubt there was ever a six year warranty on the batteries any more than there was on the tires.

Originally Posted by mumkin

Doubt it if you like, but you would be obviously wrong. The whole point of the 6 year warranty was to cover those batteries... and give people the confidence to buy them.

Here is a cut and paste from one of the older etrek AGM battery problem threads. I think this makes it quite clear that there was a 6 year AGM battery warranty.

Five snippets from a 2014 E-Trek owner manual:

page 81 -

Quote:
Warranty Intent
The intent of this extended warranty is to ensure the new owner of a Roadtrek that it is worry free from manufacturer caused
defects for the first six (6) years of use. The first owners of this E-Trek unit can feel comfortable that Roadtrek is fully behind
them for six (6) years, including the E-Trek AGM Batteries!!!
Quote:
AGM Battery Warranty
Roadtrek Motorhomes will, under the six year warranty, at its option, replace or rebuild free of charge (including related
labor) any defective AGM coach battery from date of purchase by the first Purchaser or the date the Vehicle was first put into
service (for example, as a demo or rental), whichever is earlier.
page 51 -

Quote:
Roadtrek does not cover warranty replacement of the batteries for
lack of maintenance.
Quote:
There is no user maintenance possible on these batteries except keeping them charged.

Original post location here.
http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f2...html#post63209

[RossWilliams]

One thing people should remember is that Roadtrek's warranties applied to "defects in material and workmanship" and excluded "deterioration due to wear and exposure". My impression is that Roadtrek's management was quite generous to their customers in interpreting what was a defect. But that may not be the case with the new owner, especially if the warranty costs have been transferred to a third party guarantor. They may refuse to pay for anything they aren't strictly liable for.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The way I see it, Rapido bought the rights to a brand, Roadtrek. That brand now has to be protected (e.g. value) and that is the only obligation they have to legacy customers is how they perceive that brand. If it takes honoring warranties to keep the "family" of Roadtrek owners happy then that's what they need to do to not have a revile brand. That's just business common sense. I doubt legalities enter into it. Maybe there is a negotiated condition of sale. I could be wrong but I am not a lawyer or have a stake in this so will not go beyond my opinion to explore it.

I'm not a lawyer either, but, from purely a moral and marketing perspective, it seems like the smartest decision since they just purchased the name, assets and everything else.... then I think they will do "whatever it takes" to make people happy.

If they don't, then, oh well... not only will the brand fade away gradually, but, it will not attract new prospective buyers... and that would be VERY SAD.

I really don't think that will happen... just wait and see.

For all those people who thought that the Roadtrek name was "dead".... may I remind you of what Mark Twain once reportedly said...

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated".

Let this be a lesson to those of you who "rush to judgement" on these matters.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

I'm not a lawyer either, but, from purely a moral and marketing perspective, it seems like the smartest decision since they just purchased the name, assets and everything else.... then I think they will do "whatever it takes" to make people happy.

If they don't, then, oh well... not only will the brand fade away gradually, but, it will not attract new prospective buyers... and that would be VERY SAD.

I really don't think that will happen... just wait and see.

For all those people who thought that the Roadtrek name was "dead".... may I remind you of what Mark Twain once reportedly said...

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated".

Let this be a lesson to those of you who "rush to judgement" on these matters.

I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for the rush to judgement to end, part and parcel of online discussions these days...

[Bud]

""The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"."

Not really, he's dead along with roadtrek's very dated reputation.

You know the future? If so, let us know.

Bud