Who makes the best Flooded 6v for the money?

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by windymatt

Trojan T-105’s are pretty-much the industry standard and are worth having shipped. Rolls Surrette might even be better so you might check into em. We’re you plugged into shore power when your batts took a turn for the worse? If so, you need to get a proper converter-battery charger instead of that Tripplite. Intellipower Charge Wizard is the best on the market and incorporates an excellent charging algorithm that covers all the bases
perfectly.

Not perfectly - it lacks temperature compensation. That is a must have if you want to take the very best care of your batteries. The other problem with both is the lack of much adjustment by the end user. They're both timer based so you kind of have to fit the battery bank to the charger for best results. When you step up a level to programmable chargers then you adjust the charge parameters to best match the battery bank whatever size it is.

[booster]

Originally Posted by windymatt

Trojan T-105’s are pretty-much the industry standard and are worth having shipped. Rolls Surrette might even be better so you might check into em. We’re you plugged into shore power when your batts took a turn for the worse? If so, you need to get a proper converter-battery charger instead of that Tripplite. Intellipower Charge Wizard is the best on the market and incorporates an excellent charging algorithm that covers all the bases
perfectly.

I would agree on the Trojans and and Rolls batteries, both are very good.


IMO, the Tripplite is not a great inverter/charger, just like many others are not all that great.


The PD chargers with the Charge Wizard are nice chargers, but their algorithm is really nothing all that special when you look at the charge curves. The big benefit of the Charge Wizard is that you can compensate for the inherent weakness of the timer and voltage based algorithm by forcing what ever charge stage you want, usually based on a shunt based battery monitor. Many users do the manual override with very good results.



The PD is not near the top of available chargers, IMO, as there are much better ones out there like Magnum and Outback. The PD does not have temperature compensation and is just a timer and voltage algorithm charger beyond that. The better chargers will control the charging based on amps to the batteries measured at a shunt, just like a battery monitor does. Essentially all the battery manufacturers define fully charged batteries as reaching a certain amperage to the batteries at temperature controlled absorption voltage. On the better chargers you can set that amperage in the charger settings so the batteries will always get full, if there is enough time available on charge, and never overcharged them. Essentially every timer based charger will either over or under charge depending on how much SOC has to be recovered, and AFAIK, none of them will charge to full unless they are only recovering a tiny amount of charge.


A quick and easy way to evaluate if your charger is getting the batteries full would be to take a look at how long it stays in absorption stage once the bulk is done, when starting from 50% SOC or less. If it is not in absorption for at least 6 hours, maybe more, you will not have fully topped off batteries.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by peteco

What chargers do you use? Any special charging or maintenance tips?

Yeah, they are expensive, but worth it...

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Yeah, they are expensive, but worth it...

Do you have a battery monitor so you know if your batteries are getting full, or not?

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by booster

Do you have a battery monitor so you know if your batteries are getting full, or not?

The Zamp Solar charger has a digital readout of the status of the batteries.... with the number and visual display.... Very slick system.... that's why I purchased it....

The controller won't overcharge the system.... it's all automatic.

https://www.zampsolar.com/why-zamp/

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

The Zamp Solar charger has a digital readout of the status of the batteries.... with the number and visual display.... Very slick system.... that's why I purchased it....

The controller won't overcharge the system.... it's all automatic.

https://www.zampsolar.com/why-zamp/

That is what essentially all of the controllers and chargers say, and unless you have a monitor you have no idea if it is true or not. Just because it it automatic does not make it accurate. I have looked at the Zamp specs in the past and they appear to be just doing a timer setup with a 4 hour maximum absorption time and a 1 amp cutoff (which in solar stuff usually means it is getting dark so they eliminate backpowering the panels). If you can't set the battery bank size and transition to float amperage, the charging will not be accurate in almost all cases. The 4 hour max absorption time is very typical in timer based chargers as it is a compromise between undercharging and overcharging varying battery bank sizes and depth of discharge.


I think, for some reason, that when folks see a digital display telling them something, they think that it has to be accurate and correct, which in the case of many charging equipment may or may not be true. Many of the them use technology that is not much more sophisticated than the idiot light panels, but display it as a two place decimal number.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by booster

That is what essentially all of the controllers and chargers say, and unless you have a monitor you have no idea if it is true or not. Just because it it automatic does not make it accurate. I have looked at the Zamp specs in the past and they appear to be just doing a timer setup with a 4 hour maximum absorption time and a 1 amp cutoff (which in solar stuff usually means it is getting dark so they eliminate backpowering the panels). If you can't set the battery bank size and transition to float amperage, the charging will not be accurate in almost all cases. The 4 hour max absorption time is very typical in timer based chargers as it is a compromise between undercharging and overcharging varying battery bank sizes and depth of discharge.


I think, for some reason, that when folks see a digital display telling them something, they think that it has to be accurate and correct, which in the case of many charging equipment may or may not be true. Many of the them use technology that is not much more sophisticated than the idiot light panels, but display it as a two place decimal number.

This is the panel I have.....it displays the voltage and approximate level of charge visually...full charge, 1/2 charge, etc.

Seems to be working fine for me...

I have a 160 watt solar panel on the roof...it would have been better with two... and that was my original plan, but, the size of the panel and my roof would not accommodate the second 160 watt panel....

My only alternative is to add one or two more smaller 80 watt panels... still thinking about that...not urgent..

https://www.zampsolar.com/charge-controllers/

[markopolo]

Automatic does not mean great or terrible or accurate - it just means not manual.

As Booster pointed out, a great number of automatic chargers use a set timed interval for the absorption phase and the end result will be over or under charge unless the stars align. If you happen to have the right amount of discharge coupled with the right battery capacity and the right temperature (all stars aligned) then the batteries will get fully charged.

Battery charging is a simple process. Finding the charging equipment to do a great job automatically is difficult.

Booster has described the best battery charging process before. My understanding of it is:

Note: Adequately sized, temperature compensated charger required.

1. Constant Current phase. The charger output is maximum amps (programmed for a particular battery banks requirements) until a voltage set-point (again programmed) is reached. This phase can be thought of as the rapid charge recovery phase and should get the batteries to about 90% SOC as quickly and safely as possible.

2. Once the programmed voltage set-point is reached the transition to Constant Voltage held at the chosen set-point until battery charge acceptance drops to around .005C (C = capacity) for new AGM batteries for example. There will be different requirements and opinions as to what rate of acceptance should be set. This is the phase that gets the battery fully charged. This phase will take longer than the previous phase even though it only accomplishes the final 10% of charging.

3. Once acceptance drops to that chosen set-point then transition to a programmed Float Voltage for maintenance / storage phase occurs.

You can see there is no place for a timer in the process. Voltage and current measurements determine the transition points. The best chargers respond dynamically to the requirements of the battery bank ensuring an expeditious and accurate return to a full state of charge.

One way to think of this is Good, Better, Best.

Good would be a multistage timer based charger.

Better would add temperature compensation and a variable timer based on what happened during the previous phase.

Best would be the charge process described in phases #1, #2 & #3 above.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Automatic does not mean great or terrible or accurate - it just means not manual.

As Booster pointed out, a great number of automatic chargers use a set timed interval for the absorption phase and the end result will be over or under charge unless the stars align. If you happen to have the right amount of discharge coupled with the right battery capacity and the right temperature (all stars aligned) then the batteries will get fully charged.

Battery charging is a simple process. Finding the charging equipment to do a great job automatically is difficult.

Booster has described the best battery charging process before. My understanding of it is:

Note: Adequately sized, temperature compensated charger required.

1. Constant Current phase. The charger output is maximum amps (programmed for a particular battery banks requirements) until a voltage set-point (again programmed) is reached. This phase can be thought of as the rapid charge recovery phase and should get the batteries to about 90% SOC as quickly and safely as possible.

2. Once the programmed voltage set-point is reached the transition to Constant Voltage held at the chosen set-point until battery charge acceptance drops to around .005C (C = capacity) for new AGM batteries for example. There will be different requirements and opinions as to what rate of acceptance should be set. This is the phase that gets the battery fully charged. This phase will take longer than the previous phase even though it only accomplishes the final 10% of charging.

3. Once acceptance drops to that chosen set-point then transition to a programmed Float Voltage for maintenance / storage phase occurs.

You can see there is no place for a timer in the process. Voltage and current measurements determine the transition points. The best chargers respond dynamically to the requirements of the battery bank ensuring an expeditious and accurate return to a full state of charge.

One way to think of this is Good, Better, Best.

Good would be a multistage timer based charger.

Better would add temperature compensation and a variable timer based on what happened during the previous phase.

Best would be the charge process described in phases #1, #2 & #3 above.

What does this mean? Are you saying that my ZAMP solar panels system is junk???

[markopolo]

I have no opinion on Zamp anything. I've never looked into the brand. I'd assume that you'd know the specs if you bought it though.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I have no opinion on Zamp anything. I've never looked into the brand. I'd assume that you'd know the specs if you bought it though.

Do you even have a solar panel system..?

And what is it???

[markopolo]

What exactly is your problem?

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I have no opinion on Zamp anything. I've never looked into the brand. I'd assume that you'd know the specs if you bought it though.

https://www.zampsolar.com/about-us

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by markopolo

What exactly is your problem?

You wrote a lot of stuff out there about solar panels systems...I assume you have special knowledge about them and I'd like to understand.... what you were saying...

I assume you have one?

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

You wrote a lot of stuff out there about solar panels systems........

Where?

The most I ever wrote about solar was more than a decade ago in 2007 -> http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...panel-683.html

We used to pay a lot for this stuff!

You may have confused charging by any means and specific solar charging. If you think I was writing specifically about solar in this current topic then you are mistaken.

I'm at RV #6 now and every RV that I have owned has had solar. That particular fact qualifies me as being a purchaser of solar - nothing more & nothing less.