Lithionics LiFEPO4

[wincrasher]

So it looks like their batteries keeping getting bigger and better.

What do you think of this in an 8D package? Two or three of them wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility in a robust system.

GT 12V 600 Lithium Amp Hours 8DR Case with Internal NeverDie BMS | Lithionics

[booster]

I think they all will get bigger and cheaper over time. They do now say not to use below freezing, but I didn't see anything about heaters.

They list these as 600 "lithium amp hours" which as I understand it has little to do with a normal amp hour rating, but in the spec document they say it has 600 true amp hours, which is nothing I have ever heard of. I have heard the lithium amp hours are usually more than 20 hour ratings.

Has anyone ever gotten a explanation of that from Lithionics, and how it would relate to the normal 20 hour rate of other batteries.

There is this explanation that I found from another place, but kind of sketchy.

Braille Battery Forums • View topic - What is a Lithium Amp Hour (LAH)?

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by booster

I think they all will get bigger and cheaper over time. They do now say not to use below freezing, but I didn't see anything about heaters.

They list these as 600 "lithium amp hours" which as I understand it has little to do with a normal amp hour rating, but in the spec document they say it has 600 true amp hours, which is nothing I have ever heard of. I have heard the lithium amp hours are usually more than 20 hour ratings.

Has anyone ever gotten a explanation of that from Lithionics, and how it would relate to the normal 20 hour rate of other batteries.

There is this explanation that I found from another place, but kind of sketchy.

Braille Battery Forums • View topic - What is a Lithium Amp Hour (LAH)?

I don't know. Fit RV bought the 400 ah model and that is what they seem to be getting out of it. FWIW, theirs must have some empty space inside as there are various other models in the same case - 450 ah, 480 ah and 600ah

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I think they all will get bigger and cheaper over time.

I'm feeling really good about my decision to go with 440Ah AGM this one last time--with the intention to upgrade to Li when they need replacement.
Hope they don't last TOO long.

[wincrasher]

I'm sorely tempted to get several of these and put in the basement on my new A when it's delivered in November.

[gregmchugh]

$9500 for 600AH

GT Series 12 Volt (12V) 600 amp hour Group 8D Lithium Ion Battery for Cars and Trucks, Marine, Recreational Vehicles (RV), Solar Power Systems and Other Applications - Lightweight, Powerful and Safe Lithionics Lithium Ion Batteries.

Another option might be a Victron 600AH system for $8000

Lithium Battery Banks

[wincrasher]

Ouch!

The system you linked looks interesting though. I wonder what all that "monitoring system" shows on the LCD display...

[Marley]

[QUOTE=gregmchugh;48276]$9500 for 600AH

GT Series 12 Volt (12V) 600 amp hour Group 8D Lithium Ion Battery for Cars and Trucks, Marine, Recreational Vehicles (RV), Solar Power Systems and Other Applications - Lightweight, Powerful and Safe Lithionics Lithium Ion Batteries.

I'm very reluctant to buy anything from a company that has that kind of website design. Scary.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Ouch!

The system you linked looks interesting though. I wonder what all that "monitoring system" shows on the LCD display...

I think the prices reflect that both Victron and Lithionics main market is high end marine applications where reliability is a key feature desired by the customer.

The Victron system sold by AM Solar includes a battery monitor with shunt and that central color display controller that networks to a whole bunch of Victron units such as their inverters...

Here is the display controller...

https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-.../color-control

[mojoman]

How about 10 minutes with a nut driver and build your own lithium pack for half the price?

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by mojoman

How about 10 minutes with a nut driver and build your own lithium pack for half the price?

After a little poking around, it appears those prices (from AMSOLAR) are for a turn-key installed system. There is alot that goes with it - not only install labor, but configuration expertise and integrated control and monitoring/bms and all the bits and pieces and wiring. The battery is only a portion of the cost. There are lots of outlets to buy bare lithium cells to bolt together.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by mojoman

How about 10 minutes with a nut driver and build your own lithium pack for half the price?

Some people are capable of doing that but many many more RV owners need to purchase them all built and installed for them...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

After a little poking around, it appears those prices (from AMSOLAR) are for a turn-key installed system. There is alot that goes with it - not only install labor, but configuration expertise and integrated control and monitoring/bms and all the bits and pieces and wiring. The battery is only a portion of the cost. There are lots of outlets to buy bare lithium cells to bolt together.

Three Victron 200ah batteries are at least $7000 by themselves so with the rest of the parts you are probably pushing $7500 or so, leaving $500 maybe for installation...

To significantly reduce the cost you need to move away from high end marine equipment...

[mojoman]

My BMS is the size of a potato chip, Led lights tell you whats going on, two wires go to the battery bank, two wires go to Contactor or solenoid battery switch. Quite easy to hook up. There are 4 small circuit boards you connect to the battery posts when you are connecting the cells together that does the balancing. There are other connections on the BMS for charging and alarms etc if you need or want more controls.
If you have the ability to connect the cables involved in an TV entertainment system, a lithium battery pack would be easier. No big deal to put one together.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Three Victron 200ah batteries are at least $7000 by themselves so with the rest of the parts you are probably pushing $7500 or so, leaving $500 maybe for installation...

To significantly reduce the cost you need to move away from high end marine equipment...

It seems to me that AMSolar may be going with the high end equipment because thru all their testing alot of the cheap stuff doesn't hold up. I doubt there is much margin in any of it that they are choosing it for bigger profits. If you recall, they waited 2 years or so before they'd agree to sell any lithium systems.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by mojoman

My BMS is the size of a potato chip, Led lights tell you whats going on, two wires go to the battery bank, two wires go to Contactor or solenoid battery switch. Quite easy to hook up. There are 4 small circuit boards you connect to the battery posts when you are connecting the cells together that does the balancing. There are other connections on the BMS for charging and alarms etc if you need or want more controls.
If you have the ability to connect the cables involved in an TV entertainment system, a lithium battery pack would be easier. No big deal to put one together.

I did say that there are people who can do that and there are many of those people right here on this forum but not a high percentage of them in the general Class B owner group, I would think...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

It seems to me that AMSolar may be going with the high end equipment because thru all their testing alot of the cheap stuff doesn't hold up. I doubt there is much margin in any of it that they are choosing it for bigger profits. If you recall, they waited 2 years or so before they'd agree to sell any lithium systems.

Agree, they want to avoid having failures once they are out in the field...

[nebulight]

I did HEAVY research on the victron stuff when I was thinking about building my own van vs. buying a class b and that controller unit is amazing. It can do entire house monitoring, from your batteries, inverter, tank levels, charger, solar ect. After my visit to Hershey and actually getting to see the Travato in person, I think the 59G is the way to go, I just need to figure out how to get all the cool victron stuff in there

[gregmchugh]

FitRV did a Travato upgrade using Lithionics batteries...

Our Generator-Free RV – Lithium Battery, Solar, Alternator, and Inverter

[mojoman]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I did say that there are people who can do that and there are many of those people right here on this forum but not a high percentage of them in the general Class B owner group, I would think...

Example, I own the latest iPhone, but for the life of me I can hardly even answer it let alone use any of the functions. Just like anything else, it gets easier, I remember the first time I used a microwave, I figured 10 minutes would cook two sausages, Now I know how pencils are made.